What we owe the incarcerated — and the communities holding on outside

What if the punishment wasn’t the prison sentence itself, but the isolation that follows? In this episode of Find Your Freaks, writer and podcaster Rachel Allen joins me to pull back the curtain on life behind bars — not only for those incarcerated, but also for the families left standing in fluorescent visitation rooms.

Rachel shares how she lost nearly everyone in her life when her husband was incarcerated, the hidden community that forms in waiting rooms, and the burden of secrets she carried until she found safe places to speak them. Together, we tackle the uncomfortable truth: our prison system isn’t just broken, it’s designed to dehumanize. And yet, in the darkest corners, belonging still finds a way.

Episode Highlights

• [03:23] Growing up “othered” and the soft spot it created for outsiders
• [07:08] The fear of revealing her husband’s incarceration — and losing everyone
• [12:19] Creating Beyond Broken and exposing systemic abuse
• [17:38] Why visitation is anything but “pleasant”
• [20:21] Finding fragile community in visitation waiting rooms
• [26:10] But don’t criminals get what they deserve?
• [35:58] How to know who deserves grace
• [39:29] First steps for rethinking incarceration
• [41:05] Why you are not as alone as you think

When somebody shares their story, it’s not my business unless they choose to make it my business. — Tonya Kubo Share on X

Belonging Stolen, Belonging Rebuilt

When her husband entered the federal prison system, Rachel’s life imploded. Nearly everyone she knew disappeared overnight, leaving her shattered and alone. Out of that devastation, she built new forms of belonging — both in the fragile, fluorescent-lit visitation community and in her work giving voice to those society would rather erase.

On any given day I could be talking to an eight-figure entrepreneur or a homeless person — Rachel Allen Share on X

Prison doesn’t just punish the incarcerated; it punishes their families. Rachel exposes the endless advocacy work, bureaucratic battles, and humiliating visitation processes that spouses (usually wives) endure just to stay connected.

She paints a vivid picture of waiting in line for hours, filling out endless forms, being herded through inconsistent rules, and then finally sitting across from her husband under fluorescent lights, three feet apart in hard plastic chairs. “All of our dates, our marriage, our entire relationship,” she says, “takes place from three feet apart in those chairs.”

Survival demands community — even in places designed to keep people apart.

Grace, Humor, and Humanity

Despite the heaviness, Rachel insists on humor and grace as survival tools. “It’s a load-bearing structure,” she says. “If you try to make a life in the breakdowns, that just makes a bad situation so much worse. So you find something dumb to laugh about, because otherwise, what’s the point?”

From the woman unknowingly carrying a clear purse emblazoned with “Sooie, Run, Pig,” to Rachel’s deep compassion for those society calls “undeserving,” she reminds us that belonging is about humanity, not perfection.

When asked how she responds to people who say, “They got what they deserved,” Rachel doesn’t flinch:

“It’s not like, oh, this is moderately uncomfortable. It’s not like it kind of sucks. It’s like people are actively dying in horrific and absolutely preventable ways.”

She reminds us that even states with the death penalty have rules to prevent undue suffering — yet inside prisons, people die from heatstroke, neglect, and violence at the hands of guards. If dignity matters at all, it must matter for everyone.

There is nothing someone can do that makes me see them as less than human. — Rachel Allen Share on X

Freak Flags Fly

Every interview ends with a rapid-fire round where our guests wave their freak flags proudly. Here’s how Rachel answered:

You’re my kind of freak if…
“…you can’t understand how anybody could look at people like you and not think you’re cool.”

What’s something you love that your friends just don’t get?
“I’m really fascinated by WWI — the psychology of it fascinates me endlessly.”

What community would you infiltrate just to understand it better?
“Ultra-high-net-worth people. I love just watching how they move through the world. It’s incredibly strange and fascinating.”

What tool, ritual, or practice helps you stay connected to your people?
“Writing. Whether it’s essays, poems, or memoir, that’s the way I really share my heart.”

Who’s someone doing freakishly good work who deserves a bigger stage?
“Heather Pirtle with the First Network. She’s brilliant, and what she’s doing is incredibly powerful and effective.”

Meet Our Guest

Rachel Allen is an Appalachian-born writer and host of Beyond Broken, a podcast that dares to look straight into the brokenness of the U.S. prison system and imagine something better. A journalist-turned-marketer-turned-memoirist, Rachel has written for global brands, tiny nonprofits, and everyone in between. Her essays and upcoming memoir, Batshit, dig deep into the uncomfortable, beautiful truth of what it means to be human and still fight like hell to belong.

Meet Your Host

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, marketing consultant, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. For nearly two decades, she’s built online spaces that feel less like comment sections and more like chosen family. She’s the fixer you call when your Facebook group has gone straight-up Lord of the Flies and the bouncer at the door of internet nonsense. As the host of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers and bridge-builders who know “normal” was never the point. Her favorite spaces? The ones where the freak flags fly high.

Episode Transcript

Get the full transcript from Episode 4.

Links and Mentions

• Heather Pirtle and the First Network
• Rachel’s upcoming memoir Batshit
• Beyond Broken on Substack
• RachelCatherineAllen.com
• Rachel on Instagram
• Rachel on LinkedIn

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You can purchase Find Your Freaks merchandise online through Abilities and Attitudes.

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What’s Next

Rachel’s interview left me wondering about whose suffering matters, and which lives we consider worthy of grieving. Episode 5 explores the idea of dehumanization further and how it affects beliefs about those who look, believe, live and choose differently from ourselves.