032 – Why Pastors Stay (and Why It Matters That They Do) with Margaret Marcuson
Why sustainable ministry starts with knowing what is yours to carry
Pastors are called to care for people.
But what happens when caring for people turns into carrying everything?
Ministry leaders are navigating the everyday responsibilities of serving their congregations alongside financial pressure, political polarization, changing attitudes toward organized religion, and the emotional weight of walking with people through illness, loss, and crisis.
In this episode of Find Your Freaks, Tonya Kubo sits down with clergy coach, American Baptist minister, and author Margaret Marcuson to talk about what it takes to stay in ministry without losing yourself in the process.
Margaret has spent more than twenty-five years working with pastors and ministry leaders. Her newest book, Sustainable Ministry: How to Lead and When to Nap, challenges the idea that sustainable leadership comes from learning how to squeeze more into an already full schedule.
Instead, Margaret argues that pastors need clarity about what they are actually responsible for and the ability to step back from what belongs to someone else.
Together, Tonya and Margaret explore why pastors become over-responsible, what happens when being the dependable person becomes part of your identity, and why setting boundaries can feel wrong even when you know they are necessary.
Because the goal is not to care less. It is to lead in a way that allows you and the people around you to keep growing.
Episode Highlights
- [01:30] What pastors and ministry leaders are carrying right now
- [06:50] Why sustainable ministry requires self-management and clarity of call
- [10:30] Taking the church off your back and letting go of the outcome
- [14:10] Why over-responsibility can become part of a leader’s identity
- [17:30] False guilt and what happens when you finally step back
- [21:10] Why naps, rest, and turning off notifications belong in sustainable ministry
- [25:00] Is church still worth it and what makes a church healthy?
- [28:20] Three small ways pastors can make ministry more sustainable
- [30:00] What to consider when you are thinking about leaving ministry
When Caring Becomes Carrying
Pastors occupy an unusual position. They lead the same people they serve, and those people are often financially responsible for making their work possible. Their job involves spiritual leadership, administration, community building, pastoral care, and responding when people experience some of the hardest moments of their lives.
Add financial challenges, political polarization, and changing attitudes toward Christianity, and the responsibility can feel endless.
The instinct may be to figure out how to hold all of it better.
Margaret offers another answer: You cannot hold all of it.
Sustainable ministry begins with discernment. What is your actual call in this place? Which needs are yours to respond to? How available will you be? When will you work, and when will you stop?
Those questions are not simply about managing a calendar. They require what Margaret calls self-management and clarity of call.
A pastor can care deeply about a congregation without assuming responsibility for everything that happens within it.
“It’s not just about time management, but it’s about a clarity of self-management and clarity of call.” —Margaret Marcuson Share on X
Taking the Church Off Your Back
Margaret knows what over-responsibility feels like because she experienced it herself.
During her fifteen years as a pastor, she remembers standing at the back of the church on Easter Sunday when someone mentioned that something needed to be done about a cracked toilet.
The comment sent her into a tailspin.
She felt like she was carrying the church on her back while everyone else expected her to keep carrying it.
Over time, Margaret learned to see the church differently. The congregation had existed before she arrived. It would continue after she left. It was not her church to hold together.
She had an important role to play, but she was not responsible for the outcome of everything that happened.
That distinction matters because over-responsibility does not only exhaust the person doing too much. It can also change the way everyone else participates.
When one person consistently takes responsibility for everything, other people get used to letting them.
Stepping back creates an opportunity for someone else to step forward.
“You have an important role to play, a call to this place, and you have to let go of the outcome and just be curious and see how it goes.” —Margaret Marcuson Share on X
When Responsibility Becomes Part of Your Identity
Pastors do not usually end up in highly responsible positions by accident.
Margaret’s work is grounded in Bowen family systems theory, which looks at how patterns within families influence the ways people relate to one another. The expectations we grow up with can follow us into adulthood, our work, and our leadership.
For someone drawn to ministry, being dependable may be deeply familiar. You want to help. You want to make a difference. You may have spent much of your life being the person others could count on.
None of those qualities are inherently unhealthy.
The problem begins when responsibility becomes compulsive.
If you are always the responsible one, the people around you may stop sharing the load. Eventually, doing the thing can become part of your identity and everyone else’s understanding of who you are.
Then stepping back does not simply feel like changing a responsibility. It feels like changing who you are.
That dynamic is not limited to pastors. It can happen with volunteer leaders, business owners, parents, community builders, and anyone who has become known as the person who always handles it.
“It’ll wear you out if you always have to be the responsible one and others around you are not sharing the load.” —Margaret Marcuson Share on X
Guilt Does Not Always Mean You Are Wrong
Knowing you need to step back does not make stepping back comfortable.
Margaret experienced this when she took a sabbatical as a pastor. Her congregation had never had a pastor take one before, and not everyone supported the decision.
When she returned, however, one of the church’s key lay leaders thanked her.
During her absence, the congregation had learned what they could do on their own.
This is one of the hardest parts of changing an established pattern. People may not immediately appreciate your new boundaries. They may prefer the version of you who always says yes, always answers, and always takes responsibility.
You may feel guilty too.
Margaret calls some of this “false guilt.” When you have made a thoughtful, principled decision to step back from something that is not your responsibility, feeling bad does not necessarily mean you made the wrong choice.
Sometimes the work is learning to tolerate the discomfort long enough for a healthier pattern to develop.
And when you stop doing everything, you give other people the opportunity to grow.
“It is a contribution to do what you are responsible for and step back from what you’re not responsible for.” —Margaret Marcuson Share on X
Sustainable Leadership Requires Being Off the Clock
There is a reason Margaret put naps in the title of her book.
It is funny, but it also represents something important.
When you sleep, you have to let go.
For someone accustomed to carrying responsibility, intentionally doing something that takes you away from that responsibility can be surprisingly difficult.
It does not actually have to be a nap. It could be hiking, playing games, making music, spending time on a hobby, or anything else that helps you step outside your responsibilities for a while.
The important part is that you are intentionally off the clock.
Not because exhaustion finally made continuing impossible. Not because you have nothing left to give. Because time without responsibility is part of making your work sustainable.
That can also mean turning off the notifications that constantly invite you back into work. The email will still be there. The messages will still arrive. You do not have to be available every moment simply because technology makes constant availability possible.
“Some structured time when you know you can be free of responsibility.” —Margaret Marcuson Share on X
Is Church Still Worth It?
Tonya asks Margaret a difficult question: With political division, exhaustion, changing views of organized religion, and everything churches have experienced in recent years, is church still worth it?
Margaret’s answer is both yes and sometimes no.
Some churches are unhealthy places to serve or belong. Some repeatedly burn through pastors. Leaving an unhealthy church may be the healthiest decision available.
But Margaret still believes deeply in what healthy churches can offer.
At their best, churches create community. They bring people together across generations. They offer a place to explore faith, worship, navigate the challenges of human relationships, and grow spiritually and emotionally alongside other people.
For someone looking for a church, Margaret suggests paying attention to whether people actually connect with you and care for one another. Healthy pastoral leadership matters too. A leader should be able to clearly articulate what they believe while leaving room for other people to have perspectives of their own.
And, Margaret adds, a little humor and lightheartedness do not hurt.
The goal is not finding a church without problems. It is finding one healthy enough for people to grow.
“What I think is really beneficial about church is a place of community at its best.” —Margaret Marcuson Share on X
Freak Flags Fly
Each episode ends with five quick questions. Here’s how Margaret flies her flag:
- You’re my kind of freak if… You are a pastor who wants to continue learning, growing, and developing your leadership over time.
- Something you love that the people around you just don’t get: Romance novels.
- A community you would infiltrate just to understand it better: A professional bakery.
- A tool, ritual, or practice that helps you stay connected to your people: Going to church, because it keeps her connected to what pastors are experiencing.
- Someone doing freakishly good work who deserves a bigger stage: Singer Morgan James.
Meet Our Guest
Margaret Marcuson is a clergy coach, American Baptist minister, and author who has spent more than twenty-five years helping pastors and ministry leaders develop sustainable approaches to leadership. After serving as a pastor herself for about fifteen years, Margaret began coaching clergy to lead with greater freedom, clarity, and less over-responsibility. Her newest book, Sustainable Ministry: How to Lead and When to Nap, explores how pastors can take responsibility for themselves within the systems they serve without carrying the entire church on their backs.
Meet Your Host
Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, writer, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. She’s spent nearly two decades building online spaces that feel more like chosen family than comment sections, and she’s not afraid to call out the fluff in favor of real connection. As the founder of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers, builders, and bridge-makers who believe that “normal” was never the point. When she’s not hosting the show, she’s raising two daughters, leading client communities, and making meaning out of the mess.
Episode Transcript
Get the full transcript from Episode 032.
Resources & Mentions
- Sustainable Ministry: How to Lead and When to Nap by Margaret Marcuson
- Leaders Who Last by Margaret Marcuson
- Margaret Marcuson’s clergy coaching
Support the Show
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What’s Next
Next episode, Tonya reflects on how Margaret’s perspective applies far beyond pastors to anyone expected to hold other people together. What does it cost to become everyone else’s emotional safety net?
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