When Gwen was speaking at h+h Americas, she evaluated common retail customer service tactics and noticed how much independent retailers care about their customers. These shop owners aren’t just selling products; they’re teaching skills, solving problems, and building community. However, many common practices that feel like great service aren’t actually helping shop bottom lines. Hosts Gwen Bortner and Tonya Kubo discuss sacred cows in the craft industry that are giving spoiled milk, like free help tables, open crafting groups, and unlimited support. You’ll learn why things customers love most might make it harder to build sustainable businesses. Finally, you’ll get actionable steps to audit your shop offers and protect your profit margins.
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The Customer Service Trap
One of the things Gwen heard repeatedly when she was speaking in h+h Americas earlier in 2026 was how much independent retailers care about their customers. It’s one of the things that make independent retailers so precious. These are shop owners who aren’t about selling products. They are teaching skills, solving problems, and building community. They invest a lot of time, energy, and resources, helping people enjoy the hobbies that they love.
During the conversations that Gwen had, she kept hearing about practices that retailers believe is good customer service that aren’t necessarily helping their businesses. In this episode, we’re going to talk about some of those biggest sacred cows in the craft industry that are giving spoiled milk from project tables and free help to open crafting groups and almost unlimited support and why is some of the things that customers love the most might be making it harder for retailers to build businesses that are sustainable. Gwen, why don’t you just kick us off and tell us some of the practices that you see retailers defending that make you a little bit twitchy?
Most of these are in the craft world, but there’s other versions in other independent retail, depending on what you’re doing. You find a lot of independent retail is around some version of craft these days. It is offering what appears to be great customer service. In the craft world, they will have the help table. It’s one. You can just come in and get some help. If you’re there for a few minutes, no problem. A lot of times people camp there on a regular basis.
The Hidden Cost Of Free Help Tables
This is the thing about all of these practices. Within certain boundaries and constraints, they’re a good practice. What happens is, over time, they transition and grow in a way that the customer loves, which is awesome, but is not necessarily viable from a financial perspective for the shop. Help tables, stitch ins, where the customers get together and have time together, is another crafting one. Things that are free events that may or may not lead to anything for the shop, but it supports the shop.
Another one that I’ve seen that is one that I will like to flag fast is loyal customers get a 10% discount every third Tuesday of the month. Do customers love that? Of course, they love it. Why would they not love that? What happens for a lot of these is what I call reinforcing bad behavior. We’re training them to do the things that are less sustainable for the shop. I talk to my clients about it. The owners of these shops often say, “I’ve seen it. Everybody does this. Everyone in this industry does that and if I don’t, I will be seen as an unhelpful owner in this environment.”
Why Popular Practices Are Not Always Profitable
The thing is, only because it’s common doesn’t mean that it’s a profitable practice. For several of these, when they say that, I’ll say, “You’re right. I know that most of those shops aren’t profitable. I know of 3 or 4 shops that are making serious money and they don’t do it.” That’s the thing. You don’t see enough of the other behavior. Unless you are in the weeds with these people, because it looks like people are making money and it always looks like people are making money. Unless, they’re on the way out. Only because someone else is doing it doesn’t mean that it’s a good practice.
How do retailers know whether some of these things are worth offering? You’ve talked about project tables, project nights are like stitch nights. I’ve seen that before. We stay open late the first Friday of every month and come in and do the thing. What are the questions that a retailer needs to be asking to know whether any of these are worth offering in their specific shop? I imagine what you’re saying is, what makes sense in the Central Coast of California may not make sense in Upstate New York and in the Midwest.
It depends not only on their physical location, from a geographical standpoint, but also who their customers are. What customers are coming in? Are a lot of their customers tourists or locals that are coming in on a regular basis? Are they seasonal? I worked with a shop that was in Florida. The winter season was when all the snowbirds would come down, but they would still be customers when they were up North, whatever their home was. It was a different thing. All of this plays into the equation, but the real question that you need to be asking is, what is the cost of the thing that you’re doing. Often, it’s like, “It doesn’t cost us anything. The table is right there.”
Evaluating The Real Expense Of Floor Space
No. The table takes up some amount of square footage in your shop and you pay for square footage. If you don’t have a set of shelves in that same amount of space that’s loaded with product, there is a cost there. Other costs are how much staff time is it taking to support the thing? Whatever it is. Sometimes it’s very little stuff. Sometimes it’s a lot. There’s subtle costs that you need to be looking at, which is, is doing this encouraging customers to not spend money in a different way? It’s one of those tricky things.
I’m a very big advocate that you should give help, but help only takes a short amount of time. Help means, “I already know. I need to be reminded, or I’m close, and I just need this quick thing.” Help does not take 30 or 40 minutes. That’s private instruction. Putting constraints to say, “We’ll give you help, but help means this. Not that.” It also doesn’t mean 30 consecutive two-minute sessions. That’s still private instruction.
Preventing Clique Dynamics From Driving Away New Buyers
Putting some constraints on that and making sure that it isn’t costing you money. The one that is most insidious that people don’t realize is if there are regular people meeting in a place, they become a clique, whether you want them to or not. They’re like, “They have community here,” and we want them to have community. Depending on where it is, how often it happens, and all sorts of things, it can be a negative for the new person coming into your shop.
I’ve had shop owners say, “They’re so friendly.” First up, they may not be as friendly as you think they are. They may be more friendly when you’re there as opposed to when you’re not there. Sometimes, it feels like they’re friendly, but it’s more like, “There’s a class going on here. There’s something going. I’m not supposed to be here.” For the new customer who you’re always looking for, how you are building your customer base can be challenging.
Most people will not say anything about it because why would they? They already feel like an outsider. This is a subtle piece but they’re good customers. Check that. Track their spending for a period of time. In some cases, there usually is one or two good customers in that group but there’s also almost always at least 50%, if not more, who are not purchasing much.
Free help tables can quietly turn into unpaid private instruction. Set clear boundaries to protect your time and profit margin. Share on XYou also want to watch carefully what they are saying as someone who traveled around teaching and walked into lots of shops and never felt I didn’t belong. Part of that is my personality or I was invited to be there. Often, it wasn’t necessarily known exactly who I was. I would just listen, and I would hear people at the table say, “You can get that cheaper from so and so.”
That’s not helping your shop when the people at the table are encouraging people to go purchase from somewhere else. It’s one thing if you don’t carry it. Even then, that should be you telling people. Not your customers. When it’s something that you carry, and they’re like, “Go get that so-and-so. Do it this other way.” I’ve seen it happen way more than shop owners think it is happening.
It’s interesting you bring that up because since working with you, I have had a couple of craft industry clients that have worked with me either on social media or community building. One particular situation I can think of was looking at their calendar of events. I was like, “You’ve got this like we stitch night. Why don’t we promote that? Get people into the shop and get them to see how you’ve redecorated and all these things. They went, “No. I would rather that not be somebody’s first impression of our shop, because it’s not the friendliest group.”
You know me. My next question is, “Why do we have it then?” It was just one of those things that was a holdover. There was a staff member who was passionate about it and promoted it a lot. In their absence, it devolved. There was somebody who had been there since the beginning and felt like it was their group to manage. It didn’t want to get any bigger because they liked these people.
They didn’t necessarily like others. Their shop owner didn’t know how to unring a bell, so to speak, but they’ve been here for a few years. I don’t want them to associate the group as a positive. It was only attached to this one staff member who’s no longer here. Now, everything’s gone downhill since that person left. I also don’t want my new clients to associate our staff and our shop with these personalities. It’s sticky.
You’ve got to realize that if it’s not representing a shop, then it’s not helpful. I’ve had people say, “If I say anything, they’re going to say stuff.” I had an example of this years ago when I was teaching. One of these classes where I taught very specifically about this, and she’s like, “I know I’m going to have to get rid of one of the people.” She does a lot of purchasing from us every month. It was significant. I’ve been around enough to know.
Every square foot of your shop costs money. Make sure your non-retail space is actively serving your bottom line. Share on XShe said, “I just don’t know if I can do it.” I said, “Make it happen.” In this case, they had a table and she said, “How do you do it?” I said, “One day, you remove the table. If they said, ‘What’s happening?’ You can just say, ‘Something new is coming.’ You don’t have to tell them to solve it right that second.” I saw her six months later at the next event. She said, “It made such a difference,” because what she knew is these people were, in fact, not representing the shop well. People didn’t want to be in when they were in the shop. All of these things.
What she said happened, she didn’t make any big announcement or anything, but she said the following month, she had at least 5 to 10 people come in saying, “I heard you got rid of the table.” She didn’t say anything, but the people who were at the table were talking bad about it, but these people were in because they didn’t want to be in because of the table. She said these are people that she hadn’t seen in years, literally years.
She said even with all of the sales from the table going away, she said, “I replaced it by twice the first month. I replaced it three times the second month, and replaced it three times and a half by the third month.” These were slow months for her business because the word got around because they were all talking bad about her that they got kicked out. All of the people who had stopped coming because of those people were like, “We are back in.”
This goes to show something that I have heard you say so many times and I know it’s true, generally speaking in the marketing world. You have talked about how true it is in the craft world. In the craft industry, everybody is so stinking nice. You almost will never hear about negative associations. You’ll almost never know the negative impact of what you are doing until you stop doing it.
It happens so often. As I said, it’s risky but go ahead and do it. In her case, she was like, “It’s totally turned everything around for me.” She did something else with the space and changed everything for her. She was terrified to do this. As I said, most of the time when people check the value of their table, it’s not that high. Hers was truly high. It was not a nominal number but she’s like, “It just turned things around.” We’ve stayed on this trajectory going forward. It wasn’t just a blip.
Thinking Like An Owner Instead Of A Discount Customer
Something, I’ve heard you say and you may have even had this on Facebook, is that customers are experts in what they want, and owners have to be experts in what that costs. I’m curious because you have so much experience in this. Why is it so difficult on the independent retailer front to think like an owner versus thinking like a customer?
The primary reason is fairly obvious. Being an independent retailer rarely is going to make you boatloads of money. You go into being an independent retailer because you love whatever it is that you’re retailing around. You shared a story about a pet shop independent retailer. The same thing. You’re not going to be a pet shop independent retailer and hate animals. You’re going to love animals. Birds may be your favorite over cats and dogs. Maybe dogs are your favorite over cats and mice, but you’re going to love animals. You will have been an enthusiastic customer before you’re an independent retailer owner.
Shifting your mindset from, I’m the customer, but if I was a customer, this is what I would want. Not that that’s not a good thought process because it is, but you also then have to do the other half to say, “Does it make good business sense to do that?” As a customer, I want everything to be discounted tremendously all the time. I would love that as a customer.
Now, since I’ve been in business and done this consulting. I would also not want that as a customer if you were a good shop that I wanted to attend because I know that’s not sustainable. Unless you have a very unique business model to make that work. I want you to survive because I also always think as an owner. I don’t want you discounting stuff all the time. Most people haven’t gone through that process.
It’s fairly obvious. I’m like, “It’s not obvious to me.” I wouldn’t have asked the question if I knew the answer already. I knew about the cost of goods sold but they didn’t understand the cost of goods sold. I understood a store owner has to pay a certain amount of money for an item, but I never thought about what their markup was. I assume markup but is their markup three times what the item cost? Is it 1.5 times what the item costs? For the longest time, I was that consumer. If a sale wasn’t 50% off, it was not worth my time. I shopped in a lot of big box stores because only big box stores can afford a 50% off sale on anything. Now, I understand that 5% is a big give for independent retail.
That’s the other problem. A lot of folks that are coming into this business are looking at the big players because that’s mostly what’s out there. They’re looking at Macy’s, the Coles, the Walmart, the Target, and whoever, and saying, “This is how they get customers and keep customers. I should do the same thing,” but their business model is a completely different business model. They are buying quantities that even I can’t fathom.
Unmanaged store groups can create cliques that scare off new buyers. Audit your customer events regularly. Share on XThere’s this whole different piece in there that allows them to do the things that they’re doing. Part of it sometimes is, you come into a spot on the mall and you’re getting subsidized a huge amount for your lease space. Not happening when you’re a little tiny shop downtown or wherever. There’s all sorts of pieces in their business model that don’t apply to your business model. If you’re a Target or a grocery store, they pay a premium to get certain shelf placement in certain places. There’s additional income. None of your independent retailer products that I’m aware of are saying, “I’m going to give you a premium if you put me at the front door.”
You get to choose what goes at the front door and there’s no benefit to you as the store owner to put one in front versus another, other than your own marketing, your own merchandise, and your own choices. There’s no financial benefit from the vendor. What ends up happening is most independent retailers come in with two pieces of information. Both of which are slightly helpful, but not fully helpful. The customer perspective because they’ve been a customer. What I see other retailers do and unless you’ve spent a lot of time truly paying attention to independent retailers and understanding whether or not they’re profitable. That’s one of the other things.
A lot of independent retailers that we see, particularly in the craft industry but even in independent clothing retailers or pet retailers and whatnot. They do it because they love it. There’s no way for you to know that. That was one of the big a-ha when I first started working in retail back when I was in college. I helped make the business profitable. The owner’s husband was mad because he was using it as a write-off for his much more profitable business and wasn’t expecting it to make money.
He was completely fine with it, losing a fairly significant chunk of change every year. That was not a problem for him. If you looked at the business, it looked like it was a successful business. It had gone on for many years. If you didn’t know the behind-the-scenes thing, you would say, “I should do all the same things that she’s doing.” There were serious things that were bad choices from a financial standpoint. All of those things play into the process. One of the things that I always try and get my clients to think about is, what are the things that you can do as an independent retailer that the big boys can’t do instead of trying to replicate what the big boys are doing?
Tell us what could they do? What are some ideas?
Just because every shop in your industry does something doesn't mean it makes financial sense for your business. Share on XOne of the things is to rethink Black Friday. Black Friday is a big retailer’s sacred cow. We have to do discounts. We have to do all of these things. One of my clients used to do big Black Friday sales. The problem is, when you sell a product on sale, you’re going to have to restock and you can’t restock it at the same rate because you don’t have the same profit margin for it. You can only replace it with one, and that’s not good business.
It took a year or so for us to work together. She reduced her Black Friday sale the first year to things that she was never going to restock again. It’s not like everything’s on sale for Black Friday. That was the first thing. The next year, she didn’t have a sale at all for Black Friday, but she had special events. She had Make and Takes that she charged for. I want to make a point. It wasn’t like all of this was free. She charged for things. They had some themed activities going on. There was a movie running in the classroom, in the background, that was like, you could come and sit for a little while. There was popcorn and all sorts of things.
This just sounds like so much fun and I’m not even a crafter.
There you are. That was the thing. Instead of dealing with the insanity of Black Friday sales because some people love that and good for them. There’s a lot of us that has no interest in doing the whole stand in line for the Black Friday sale. This was for a different set of people and maybe you don’t like watching football. Some people love football. I’m not saying anything against it, but if you don’t, it’s like, “I’m going to go do something else during this time.”
Rethinking Traditional Holiday Discounting
What happened is she said, “I did as much in sales in income as I’ve ever done on any of my sales.” Her profit margin, her gross profit right after we took out the cost of goods and everything else, was through the roof compared to anything else. People were talking about it for months. That’s advertising and marketing you can’t pay for and that’s got paid for instead. This was an example. I talked to her about what Macy’s can’t do and made all the difference.
Those are some great ideas. This is what we’re talking about in all different businesses. What is the thing that you can do that your competition can’t? Especially for the independent retailers who think they’re truly competing against big box folks like Hobby Lobby and Michaels, and all of those. I don’t know who else is selling thousands.
Those are the biggies.
Customers know what they want, but business owners must be experts in what those desires actually cost. Share on XWhich also brings me to the other piece that independent retailers value, which is community. How do you go about creating community without paying to create community or to your earlier point, paying to create community that undermines your business? What are your thoughts?
There’s multiple ways to do it and it doesn’t have to be big community free stuff all the time. You can do some free things, occasionally, but it’s also okay to charge for the things that are community-building things, that are community activities. There can be special membership. Groups that pay a monthly fee or annual fee, or whatever. They do get together when the shop is not open or they get to see the product before it hits the shelves. There can be some benefits for it. What I have found is, a lot of times, those folks get very excited and will buy out 50% of it and probably just paid for your cost for the product right while they’re also paying for the privilege to be able to do that, to be the first one to get it.
It’s not that we don’t do anything for free, but you want to be cautious about it. Make sure that it has boundaries and constraints where it makes sense that you can sustain it over time and realize that the value of an independent retailer are the things that you bring to the table. It is your knowledge. It is your experience. It is the ability to create experiences that they can’t get at a big box store and they’re willing to pay for it.
If someone says, “Someone else would do this for free.” They’re probably not going to be available to you in another year or two because they can’t do this forever. This is not sustainable. Sometimes, you need to say, “I understand that but we charge for classes. If this is more than a three-minute help, we consider that a private class or we can get you signed up for one of our group classes. This is what we have available that would likely help you.” Most people will get that. The ones who won’t, are not going to be your customers anyway.
What do you think the retailer reading needs to hear most as we close?
Auditing Non-Selling Activities For Sustainability
The thing you need to do is audit all of your activities that aren’t directly selling, but audit. Do you have special rewards programs? Do you have membership programs? Do you have help sessions? Do you have senior discount days? Audit everything and look at and say, “Is the value that’s coming in from a business perspective more than compensating?” It can’t be breakeven because if it’s breakeven, you’re not making money.
You need to be making money because you have overhead. You have expenses. You’ve got all sorts of other things that breakeven doesn’t cover. Do an audit and look through and figure out which ones are making you money. Do more of those, by the way. Which are the ones that are near breakeven can you change the business model so that it is profitable? Which of the ones that are seriously costing you money? Do they need to continue or do they need to be completely cut?
If you are tuning in and you’re realizing that you have not ever done this evaluation of your business because you’ve just assumed all the things that you’re doing are things that you have to do, or maybe it didn’t occur to you until right now that they do add up. That there is a cost associated with free. That’s exactly the thing that Gwen helps business owners work through all the time.
The best way to get some outside perspective on any evaluation, especially if you’re in an area where you don’t have shop owners to talk to, is to get on the call with Gwen. It is not a sales call. It’s a way to get some outside insight on the cost of these sacred cows that are giving spoiled milk. Quite honestly, maybe the reason that you can’t get ahead no matter how much you’re selling. You can schedule that call at www.tonyakubo.com/Clarity. That will get you right to Gwen’s calendar. She can probably help you in, I would say about 30 minutes. Wouldn’t you, Gwen?
Usually, there’s at least something that pops up that becomes very obvious in less than 30 minutes.
We will catch you on the next episode as we finish out the series on Lessons Learned From h+h Americas.
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About Your Hosts
Gwen Bortner has spent four decades advising executives and entrepreneurs in 45+ industries. She helps women succeed in business without sacrificing happiness by identifying their true desires and aligning their business functions. She spots overlooked bottlenecks and crafts efficient plans toward sustainable success that center your values and priorities. Known for her unique approach to problem-solving and accountability through the G.E.A.R.S. framework, Gwen empowers clients to achieve their definition of success without sacrificing what matters most.
Tonya Kubo is a marketing strategist and community builder who helps entrepreneurs build thriving online communities. As co-host of The Business You Really Want and Chief Marketing and Operations Officer (CMOO) at Everyday Effectiveness, she keeps conversations on track and ensures complex business concepts are accessible to everyone. A master facilitator with 18+ years of experience in online community building, Tonya takes a people-first approach to marketing and centers the human experience in all she does.
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